{"id":14696,"date":"2024-05-01T16:00:22","date_gmt":"2024-05-01T21:00:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/geekygirl.ca\/?p=14696"},"modified":"2024-05-10T10:59:15","modified_gmt":"2024-05-10T15:59:15","slug":"empowering-neurodivergent-entrepreneurs-creating-inclusive-workspaces","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/geekygirl.ca\/empowering-neurodivergent-entrepreneurs-creating-inclusive-workspaces\/","title":{"rendered":"Empowering Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs: Creating Inclusive Workspaces"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_9466\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-14696-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/content.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/Podcast_Interview_Recording_Sara_Kedge.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/content.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/Podcast_Interview_Recording_Sara_Kedge.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/content.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/Podcast_Interview_Recording_Sara_Kedge.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/content.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/Podcast_Interview_Recording_Sara_Kedge.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/geekygirl.ca\/?powerpress_pinw=14696-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/content.blubrry.com\/overgiversanonymous\/Podcast_Interview_Recording_Sara_Kedge.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"Podcast_Interview_Recording_Sara_Kedge.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4GMbCVtegD9jXGq57534ZH\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/radio\/Business--Economics-Podcasts-g3418\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_tunein\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on TuneIn\" rel=\"nofollow\">TuneIn<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/geekygirl.ca\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><!-- MailerLite Universal --><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In this insightful episode of the Overgivers Anonymous podcast, host Angela Mondor engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Sarah Ketch, a leading voice in DEI strategy and advocate for neurodivergent entrepreneurs. Through Sarah&#8217;s expertise and personal experiences, listeners gain valuable insights into the importance of understanding and embracing neurodiversity in both corporate culture and entrepreneurship. From redefining success to celebrating progress and fostering supportive communities, Sarah&#8217;s approach underscores the necessity of inclusive and humane practices in today&#8217;s business landscape. Join us as we explore the power of empowerment, self-awareness, and community in creating truly inclusive workspaces for all.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Highlights:<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Understanding neurodiversity in the corporate world.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Challenges faced by neurodivergent individuals in traditional business models.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Redefining success and embracing neurodiversity in business.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The importance of boundaries and self-awareness for neurodiverse entrepreneurs.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Leveraging community and peer support for empowerment.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Celebrating personal definitions of success and achievements.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The significance of teamwork and setting personal goals.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Implementing unique approaches to project management.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Utilizing SMART goals to break down overwhelming tasks.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Overcoming overwhelm with actionable steps and celebrating progress.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div class=\"ql-block\" data-block-id=\"block-77a61d96-6281-4fa5-bf57-5a78ce53f74b\">Sara Kedge (she\/her) works with corporate leaders to create inclusive, healthy and more productive workplaces that work for everyone. A renowned DEI Design Thinking Strategist, Coach and Trainer, Sara blends curiosity and playfulness with deep cross-functional knowledge. She prides herself on helping teams move out of stressful<\/div>\n<div class=\"ql-block\" data-block-id=\"block-964c69e6-f2d2-41ce-9c6e-0123a4e69db7\">dysfunction to create human-focused workplace cultures where critical thinking \u2013 and people \u2013 are encouraged and valued.<\/div>\n<p><img fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-14699\" src=\"https:\/\/geekygirl.ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/nVbi7foQTs6IX5yY0Awo_Sara-Kedge-105.jpg\" alt=\"Sara Kedge\" width=\"411\" height=\"275\" \/><\/p>\n<div class=\"ql-block\" data-block-id=\"block-0db1e010-376c-4560-9850-4ff8d988a852\">Sara carries the collective experience of the neurodivergent community into the solutions she co-creates with her clients. As the founder and curator of How 2 Entrepreneuro, an online community supporting neurodivergent entrepreneurs, Sara is constantly learning and hearing from the people she supports, most of whom have suffered burnout within the corporate or public sectors. Sara\u2019s clients vary in reach from global to local, across a range of industries including academia and training institutions, public and third sector, technology, bio-medical and international development. Sara co-creates bespoke solutions for each new client challenge, drawing on years of change management consultancy and her current role as a lecturer for the Business and Management faculty at Oxford Brookes University. Sara\u2019s commitment to delivering a playful, human-centred approach to transition and culture development, makes her an outstanding \u2013 and refreshingly unusual \u2013 asset to her clients. Topic that you would like to speak on Creating inclusive businesses.<\/div>\n<div class=\"ql-block\" data-block-id=\"block-8c7db6f4-f446-44a8-9836-182fb9efaeb3\">Website:<\/div>\n<div class=\"ql-block\" data-block-id=\"block-56c28dd9-5198-496e-9029-bf298d9934b9\"><a class=\"ql-link\" href=\"http:\/\/sarakedge.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">sarakedge.com<\/a><\/div>\n<div data-block-id=\"block-56c28dd9-5198-496e-9029-bf298d9934b9\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"ql-block\" data-block-id=\"block-c31b63dd-7cac-455d-bbbd-3c9cf63a5abb\">Facebook Page:<\/div>\n<div class=\"ql-block\" data-block-id=\"block-70476866-9274-4277-9c42-43a103f3c0ba\"><a class=\"ql-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/sara.kedge\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/sara.kedge<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"ql-block\" data-block-id=\"block-3f0c7674-527a-4a4e-b60c-0aa90e33e4ee\"><a class=\"ql-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/298987737971570\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/298987737971570<\/a><\/div>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><script>\n    (function(w,d,e,u,f,l,n){w[f]=w[f]||function(){(w[f].q=w[f].q||[])\n    .push(arguments);},l=d.createElement(e),l.async=1,l.src=u,\n    n=d.getElementsByTagName(e)[0],n.parentNode.insertBefore(l,n);})\n    (window,document,'script','https:\/\/assets.mailerlite.com\/js\/universal.js','ml');\n    ml('account', '344416');\n<\/script><br \/>\n<!-- End MailerLite Universal --><br \/>\n<button class=\"ml-onclick-form\">Click here to become a loyal listener<\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"lightweight-accordion\"><details><summary class=\"lightweight-accordion-title\"><span>Click Here for the transcript<\/span><\/summary><div class=\"lightweight-accordion-body\"><p>[00:00:00] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Welcome to the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. My name is Angela Mondor, also known as the Geeky Girl. In this podcast, we&#8217;re going to be talking about some amazing things to help you get over overgiving.<\/p>\n<p>Hi and welcome to this episode of the Obergivers Anonymous podcast. I am super excited. I&#8217;ve had some fun getting to know Sarah here, so I can&#8217;t wait until we can dive into a few things. But this is Sarah Ketch, and she works with corporate leaders to create inclusive, healthy, and more productive workplaces that work for everyone.<\/p>\n<p>A renowned DEI design thinking strategist, coach, and trainer, Sarah blends curiosity and playfulness with deep cross functional knowledge. She prides herself in helping teens move out of stressful dysfunction to create human focused workplaces and cultures where critical thinking and people are encouraged and valued.<\/p>\n<p>Sarah carries the collective experience of the neurodivergent community into the solutions she co creates with and With her clients as the founder and curator of how to entrepreneur. Oh, because we&#8217;re going to talk about that. An online community supporting neurodivergent entrepreneurs. Sarah is constantly learning and hearing from the people she supports.<\/p>\n<p>Most of whom have suffered burnout. In the corporate and public sectors, you all have known how much I&#8217;ve burnt out in that place. Sarah&#8217;s clients vary in reach from global to local, across a range of industries, including academia and training institutions, public and third sector technology, biomedical and international development.<\/p>\n<p>Sarah co creates bespoke solutions for each new client challenge, drawing on years of change. Management, consultancy, and her current role as a lecturer for the business and management faculty of Oxford Brookes University. Sarah&#8217;s commitment to delivering a playful, human centered approach to transition and culture development makes her an outstanding and refreshingly unusual asset to her clients.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:57] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> I really should have made that shorter, shouldn&#8217;t I?<br \/>\n[00:02:00] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> All good. Let&#8217;s have fun.<br \/>\n[00:02:02] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> Basically, what I do is when I go into businesses, I help people learn how not to be arseholes to each other.<br \/>\n[00:02:11] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> And we need that. We really need that.<br \/>\n[00:02:14] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> Yeah, we absolutely do. And it&#8217;s one of those things where when, when I, when you say that in the difficult language or the corporate language, it&#8217;s just like, it sounds really snazzy, but actually I teach humans how to human with each other.<\/p>\n<p>Yes. Right? But nobody buys that. Nobody buys somebody who&#8217;s gonna, because we all think we can human with each other.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:34] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Yes. Yeah. It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s the self awareness. It&#8217;s the reading the room, the pieces that we think should come, not should, I hate shitting all on you, but it&#8217;s true. We think people should be able to get these things, but it is so clear to those of us who are neurodiverse, how it&#8217;s not, it&#8217;s not clear.<\/p>\n<p>Normal in neurotypical people. I don&#8217;t know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:56] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> Well, and part of that is because you have most businesses have amazing human beings in them. And what they&#8217;re doing is they&#8217;re working within constraints and processes and systems that are designed to get things from A to B as efficiently as possible. That doesn&#8217;t work for most humans and it never has amazing humans trying to.<\/p>\n<p>Human in an imperfect and really difficultly designed institution.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:32] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Well, and I think that, you know, one of the things that we&#8217;re sort of going to float around as we&#8217;re talking today is the, the fact of building this inclusive space, right, to be inclusive as a business, but those of us who are neurodiverse, our businesses are inclusive because, Hey yeah, we need it to be right.<\/p>\n<p>I think that what&#8217;s interesting to me, and I know that you work with business owners who are neurodiverse as well on a smaller scale from corporate. Is that we think, and I think this is what breaks most of us as neurodiverse entrepreneurs. And I think this is, this is my mission. And I, I think that you share it.<\/p>\n<p>Like, seriously, fuck corporate, because what it&#8217;s doing is it&#8217;s telling us that we&#8217;re no good because we don&#8217;t fit their boxes. When in fact, the reason why we don&#8217;t fit your box is because we have so many more things to offer than your box has space for.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:21] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> And actually, the box that&#8217;s been designed, it doesn&#8217;t, as I said, it doesn&#8217;t work for human beings.<\/p>\n<p>The real tragedy is, is that when you have neurodivergent humans who get burnt out by corporate environments, they come out and go, I&#8217;m going to go out on my own. I&#8217;m going to design, I&#8217;m going to create a business and I&#8217;m going to have freedom. And they then design a business to the model of the thing that just burnt them out.<\/p>\n<p>Yes. And it makes no sense until you think And recognize that nobody tells you that there&#8217;s another way. Throughout the whole of your schooling, your we have college and then we have university, all of your years, there is this one model on how things work and then you go into businesses. So nobody tells you that there&#8217;s another way.<\/p>\n<p>Nobody tells you that you can be creative with your business and design it in a way that really works for you. And that&#8217;s a tragedy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:19] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Well, not only is it, you can do it, but you need to like when we, when we look at everybody thinks, Oh, I used to have a job. And when I was at my job, I worked eight hours a day.<\/p>\n<p>No, you didn&#8217;t. You didn&#8217;t work eight hours a day. You had a lunch and girlfriend, you took more than your lunch break. If you smoked, you took a lot of smoke breaks, right? You got up to pee. You went and chatted with the little neighbor down the way, whatever. You didn&#8217;t work eight hours a day. So why are you busting your tail as an entrepreneur, trying to work eight, nine, 10, 12 hours?<\/p>\n<p>You do not need to be doing that, your brain does not function well like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:57] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> And some, I hear you, and also the experience of a lot of neurodivergent people is because we have been given the message since we&#8217;re very small, we&#8217;ve been given requests to modify. Which is your Not okay, how your brain works isn&#8217;t okay.<\/p>\n<p>You should just work harder, get better at it. So we have had this message that we, we have to try harder and we just keep trying and trying and trying. So although the Karen&#8217;s of this world will have gone out for smoke breaks and walk down the hall and Allah. Most neurodivergent people you&#8217;ll find will be working extra hours.<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;ll be working twice as hard. They&#8217;ll be doing over and above. They&#8217;ll be volunteering for projects because they&#8217;re trying to be good enough. In a world and a business that is not designed to acknowledge their brilliance or to support them to do, to deliver good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:55] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s gross. And I, I, I feel it. I mean, to my core, because like, we&#8217;ve all lived it.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ve all experienced it. And maybe. You&#8217;ve not been able to quantify it. I had a really great quantifying moment in my, in my career when I left a business because I asked for a raise. God forbid. I asked for a raise and they were only going to give me, I don&#8217;t know, 3 percent or whatever over last year.<\/p>\n<p>And I said, but my job has changed a lot since then, blah, blah, blah. Now I left, they replaced me with three people.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:25] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> Stop. So, so, so that even the 10 percent raise. would have been a bargain. And this is one of the things that I don&#8217;t, I struggle with in when I&#8217;m working with corporates because quite often when I&#8217;m sitting doing training or I&#8217;m doing needs analysis, the, the response that comes from management is, well, all of this reasonable adjustment stuff, really expensive.<\/p>\n<p>It costs a lot of money. It takes a lot of time. And I&#8217;m like, you&#8217;re right. Now tell me how much it costs to replace an employee. Yes. Tell me how much it costs to advertise. Tell me how much it costs to get the job description, the interview, the checking. Tell me how much it costs for you to re train a new employee and then tell me a couple of thousand pounds or a couple of thousand dollars.<\/p>\n<p>on a desk, a monitor, something. Tell me how that&#8217;s more expensive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:17] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Or a room where you can go to where it&#8217;s quiet and dark for a little while.<br \/>\n[00:08:20] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> The, the number of neurodivergent people who, when they come out of the workplace and, or like the amount of time I spent in the toilet, I wasn&#8217;t, didn&#8217;t actually have a, a, a problem with peeing and pooing.<\/p>\n<p>I was just going in there to decompress and to hide and to just sometimes cry and just go. I need to stop.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:40] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> I am so grateful I worked in IT because we had a server room I could go to. And we would literally hide in the server room. All of us neurodivergent IT people were like, errr.<br \/>\n[00:08:52] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> I mastered the art of wandering around the office with a piece of paper with a really concerned eye.<\/p>\n<p>Purposeful look on my face and nobody. So I just, I used to do laps of buildings, just looking purposeful, just because I needed some time to decompress and not people.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:09] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Smart, smart. Yes. Well, and the, and the piece of paper also, when you get that look on your face and the piece of paper, they go, Oh, I&#8217;m not, I&#8217;m not talking to her.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m going to let her go. Even if, even if it&#8217;s not because you need the time, but you just need to get from point A to point B in two minutes, not ten.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:25] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> But it&#8217;s also, it&#8217;s really sad because it&#8217;s not until you go through your neurodivergent awareness journey that you, and you start unpicking all of these adjustments that you make in these coping strategies that you go, Oh, what do you mean?<\/p>\n<p>Not everybody does this, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:39] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Yeah. Well, and I, I would say I&#8217;m fortunate. I didn&#8217;t get diagnosed until I was in my thirties. My oldest daughter did. She got diagnosed like two weeks after me, which was hilarious. But the difference between my journey and hers is interesting because I had to come up with coping coping mechanisms.<\/p>\n<p>For myself, I didn&#8217;t know what I was doing, but I was creating these coping mechanisms. But when my daughter was diagnosed, she was in high school or junior high, I guess it was high school. But for her, we had to start, we started thinking differently. How can we, how can we adjust, how can we change, blah, blah, blah.<\/p>\n<p>And I think it changed the way that she handles her own neurodiversity, very interesting sort of dichotomy of how it came about just because we were similar at the same time, but a different way. Sorry. Space, space and time in life, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:29] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> I mean, that&#8217;s amazing. I mean, that&#8217;s amazing. I think one of the things that, that I&#8217;m really grateful for is to have developed the language and the confidence to say, this is what my needs are.<\/p>\n<p>You have a choice. You either meet them or we don&#8217;t engage with each other. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:47] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Boundaries are something that I am so passionate about. And you know, people say, Oh, I&#8217;ve set my boundaries with people keep walking over them. And I say, well,<br \/>\n[00:10:56] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> that&#8217;s because you haven&#8217;t set your boundaries.<br \/>\n[00:10:58] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Well, you&#8217;ve set them, but you haven&#8217;t reinforced them.<\/p>\n<p>Like it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s okay for people to walk across them. If they don&#8217;t know that they&#8217;re walking across them, people aren&#8217;t going to just know. And if you&#8217;ve, I mean, obviously if you&#8217;ve been in relationship with somebody for a long time and they keep walking over the boundaries and you keep reinforcing, that&#8217;s a totally different problem.<\/p>\n<p>But if you set a boundary and you say, Hey, you know what, you know, Sarah, please don&#8217;t email me on the weekends. It really doesn&#8217;t work for me. And you email me on the weekends and I reply back to you on Monday and go, yeah, thanks for emailing me, but could you please keep that till Monday for me? Right.<\/p>\n<p>Then I&#8217;m reinforcing the boundary rather than going, I told Sarah one time not to email me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:34] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> Right. And there&#8217;s this really difficult thing because in the neurodivergent space with many neurodivergent people experience rejection sensitivity. Yes. And it&#8217;s really difficult when you&#8217;re trying to set boundaries because rejection, what people don&#8217;t think about is rejection sensitivity works in two ways.<\/p>\n<p>Yes. I don&#8217;t like being rejected. So I&#8217;m rejected, rejection sensitive for myself. So I tried to cultivate an environment where I&#8217;m never rejected. Exactly. But we don&#8217;t think about actually I tolerate people&#8217;s behavior because I don&#8217;t want to reject somebody else. So when you&#8217;re sort of, you&#8217;re somebody that&#8217;s sort of setting down boundaries and going, no, this is a boundary.<\/p>\n<p>This is a line, please do not cross it. It then sort of becomes difficult because I don&#8217;t want to give a rejection to that person. Which then means I&#8217;m reinforcing my boundaries. So it&#8217;s a difficult thing to navigate.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:25] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> It is extremely difficult to navigate. And, you know, a lot of us with neurodiverse. And so, I mean, there&#8217;s different scopes, right?<\/p>\n<p>So for those of us who have the the rejection sensitivity part, I mean, there&#8217;s also neurodiverse people who don&#8217;t have. Any of that they don&#8217;t understand how what they&#8217;re doing is impacting the other people. Like there&#8217;s that, that other side to it. But for those who are more sensitive to other people&#8217;s thoughts and feelings and how, how am I going to be perceived if I say this?<\/p>\n<p>And how are they going to feel if I say that? And, you know, I mean, I&#8217;ll tell you that that is a lot of the reasons why email is difficult for me. I have an executive assistant who writes my emails because I can just say, say this, and then she cleans it up and makes it nice. Right. Because I don&#8217;t like, even when I send somebody a text message or something, I&#8217;ll be like, here&#8217;s the data.<\/p>\n<p>And then I have to go, Oh no. Hi, how are you today? So my brain doesn&#8217;t function in a way that is receptive really well to some people. And so for me in my business, Those are what I&#8217;ve had to do is say, how can I make it so that I can still say what I need to say, but so that my clients and the people that hear me get what they need as well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:36] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> It&#8217;s one of those really interesting things. So in the How To Entrepreneurial group, we have I think the Wednesday thing and it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a weekly peer. Peer coaching, peer support group everybody comes in. Anybody who&#8217;s in the household entrepreneur community can come in. They come in and you ask a question and then the room answers it for you in all of their beautiful neurodivergent ways.<\/p>\n<p>We have none of this. Let&#8217;s have a round of check ins. How is everybody doing today? It&#8217;s like, hi, hey, you know, hi, Karen, you&#8217;re in. Hi, Belle, you&#8217;re in. Hi, da da da da da. Right, let&#8217;s get into it. Because we have no need for, it&#8217;s not I don&#8217;t care about somebody&#8217;s dog or their child or the, whether their flowers have been, it&#8217;s not I don&#8217;t care.<\/p>\n<p>I have no need for it. And neither do anybody else that comes into this room. So it&#8217;s really refreshing to have a space and cultivate a space where. It&#8217;s like, hi, everybody&#8217;s here. Let&#8217;s crack on. Everybody&#8217;s done. Have a good day. See you around.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:32] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> And that&#8217;s the important piece that I think that as neurodiverse business owners, it&#8217;s important for you to create these communities or to find these communities that support you in the way you need to be supported.<\/p>\n<p>Because a community you walk into, maybe they have the tools you need, maybe they have the classes you need, maybe they, whatever the case may be, but maybe the facilitator isn&#8217;t right for you. Or maybe the group of people don&#8217;t feel right to you. It&#8217;s okay to say, Oh, this isn&#8217;t for me. I got to go and find something else.<\/p>\n<p>Again, that rejection thing is really difficult. Rare. I mean, I talk a lot about there was one year I lost 10, 000 simply because I was in the wrong space. Right? And I didn&#8217;t have the confidence to go, Oh, I&#8217;m not in the right place. Okay. So, and, and that was, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s not even accounting to the sales I lost.<\/p>\n<p>That was just the cost of the program. But, you know, we as, as neurodiverse people, I feel like when we move through something, when we, when we grow. it&#8217;s important for us to share those growths with other people. It is, it can be difficult sometime to learn from other people&#8217;s mistakes, but please, please take my mistakes.<\/p>\n<p>Please learn from mine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:44] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> And I actually see my celebrations as well. I think that&#8217;s one of the important things that you just said, which is share your successes. Because one of the things that I know from my community is that as much as we Want it as you&#8217;re being able to say, I did a good thing and receiving praise or acceptance or acknowledgement.<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. You did a good thing. Well done you. It&#8217;s really hard. Yes. And it&#8217;s really important for people to see because it&#8217;s in the, in the community, in the group, there are regularly people going, I just need to share that I did a thing. And it&#8217;s as important for the person to say, I did a thing and I&#8217;m really proud of it is it is for all of those lurkers in the room who watch the posts and never, never comment, never like to actually see it is possible.<\/p>\n<p>It is possible for me to be moderately profoundly experiencing co occurring difficulties. It is possible for me to experience this in my life and have a successful business, whatever success means.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:51] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> That is key. That is key because I fight, I fight the fight all the time because if success to you means that you are making enough money to pay for your child&#8217;s hockey gear.<\/p>\n<p>Yay. If success to you is making a million dollars a year and having a team of 10. Yay. That&#8217;s not my, it&#8217;s none of my business what your success is. Whatever your success is, I&#8217;m here to support. And we need to bring more of that. Just like you said, like whatever that is to you, that&#8217;s all that matters.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:23] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> And I think when people setting up their business, again, neurotypical model of, of how you should plan a business.<\/p>\n<p>What success is you, if you Google business planning, you will see a whole fuck ton of stuff around. Set yourself some smart goals. What are your sales projections? Who&#8217;s your target audience? All of this. And you fill these business plans and you put them on the shelf, even if you get through your damn business plan, because hello ADHD, I&#8217;m going to get two pages in, get bored, hello dyslexia, you&#8217;re asking me to write a thousand words, you know, hello autism, you&#8217;re asking me to sort of think in an abstract, just doesn&#8217;t work.<\/p>\n<p>Yes. So there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s this curiosity and allowing you to have experimentation on actually what&#8217;s going to be meaningful for you. What&#8217;s the journey you want to take and in which direction do you want to take that? So you&#8217;re setting, not a target, not a goal. Not even an aspiration, but you&#8217;re saying, where am I heading?<\/p>\n<p>What journey do I want to go on? Yeah, because and it&#8217;s much and I get so it grinds my gears when you sort of look on social media and look at marketing and stuff, people like, get yourself to a 10k month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:45] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Well, maybe I don&#8217;t want a 10k month because there&#8217;s a lot of hassle that comes with a 10k month.<br \/>\n[00:18:49] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> There really is, but also a 10k month is quite an abstract concept.<br \/>\n[00:18:55] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Well, people don&#8217;t understand what it takes, first of all, what it takes to get there or what it takes to sustain it or what it takes to actually, you&#8217;re not actually taking 10k home, let&#8217;s be honest. You need a team because you can&#8217;t do that shit on your own.<br \/>\n[00:19:11] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> I mean, I used to sort of say, if someone says get a 10k month, it&#8217;s like, yeah, I can get a 10k month, but that might be, I only get one 10k a month in a 12 month period.<br \/>\n[00:19:22] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> And then you&#8217;re exhausted for the next three months.<br \/>\n[00:19:25] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> Exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. But also it&#8217;s more about actually set for me, it&#8217;s more about setting a journey that something really meaningful to you.<\/p>\n<p>So people who come out of corporate life go, I want freedom. Okay, fabulous. What does freedom look like to you? Yes. What does that, what does freedom actually mean to you? Does freedom mean you have a camper van and you go away for four day weekends? Does freedom mean you have the, you have the car of your dreams?<\/p>\n<p>Does the freedom to you mean you can get food delivered from hut to home? And it&#8217;s like, define your freedom, define your success in a way that&#8217;s meaningful for you. Yes. And then walk back from that. What do I need to achieve my freedom? Yes. Because then the freedom becomes the, the intention and the journey, not a 10k month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:21] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Yeah, there&#8217;s, it&#8217;s interesting. I still, I&#8217;m a, I&#8217;m a project manager, brace, brace brain. It&#8217;s I have a really interesting brain even though I have ADHD and all those other kinds of fun stuff. I also have something called OCPD, which is obsessive compulsive personality disorder. I really like things to be in boxes.<\/p>\n<p>Boxes have to have things. I kind of like it. Which allows me to be able to see sort of the corporate side and the non corporate side when it comes to planning. As much as I hated strategic planning corporately. I hated the way it was done. I hated the words that were used. I just, it just didn&#8217;t make sense to me why we were doing the things that we&#8217;re doing.<\/p>\n<p>And what I love to help businesses owner owners do the same as you do is like, what is Your freedom, what is your goal? What is, what is it we&#8217;re trying to accomplish? And then match everything back to that. Same as what you just said, like, do I want to go and be a traveling you know, professional speaker.<\/p>\n<p>Okay, well, I have to, you know, pack my bag every week and I have to be in three different cities and I have to travel this much. Is that what freedom looks like to you? Oh, that, that sounds like it sucks. Okay, then don&#8217;t do it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:28] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> But you can do it in the corporate space. There&#8217;s there&#8217;s a, there&#8217;s a model of.<\/p>\n<p>planning called Beyond Accounting. And this is really paraphrasing. It&#8217;s slightly more complex than this, but there&#8217;s one really multi million pound business, touching billion pound business in the UK, and they use this theory. And the only target anybody in the organization has is do your job better today than yesterday.<\/p>\n<p>So whether you are cleaning the toilets, whether you are the chief finance officer, whether you are on the tills, your only job today is to do a better job than you did yesterday. That&#8217;s cool. And it gives it an expansive going, actually, I have autonomy, freedom, I&#8217;m trusted in my job to do a good job. I have freedom to make the change that improves the quality of the client customer experience, improve the efficiency of the experience.<\/p>\n<p>improve the quality of the design of the products we&#8217;re putting out there. And it feels scary, but when you start thinking about it, that freedom is liberating in a way that a SMART goal never will be.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:41] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Well, and I will challenge you on that because I use SMART goals a lot. I do change them up a little bit.<\/p>\n<p>So I definitely do believe that there&#8217;s some, there&#8217;s some logic to it. I like to change the A out. They need to be actionable goals. But, but when we take something And we can, so a lot of times as neurodiverse entrepreneurs, we get overwhelmed really easily, right? It&#8217;s like, I want to, so let&#8217;s use the example of the 10k month, just cause we brought it up a few times.<\/p>\n<p>So you want to make 10k this month. Well, that&#8217;s really nice, but how, right? So we need to figure out what is it that we want to do that could possibly get us to that goal. And we need to let go of the goal. We need, we need to let go of it to some degree so that it&#8217;s not the only thing that drives us.<\/p>\n<p>Right? So we want to also be happy. We want to have a balanced life. We want to be able to feel energized every day. We don&#8217;t want to be dragged down by the things that we&#8217;re doing. So how do you want to get there? Oh, I want to get there because I want to sell X amount of things. Okay. So how are you going to sell X amount of things?<\/p>\n<p>What is the logic behind it? Because we do need to break it down. And then when we break it down from those boulders to the pebbles to the rocks, like we break it down into sand, then every day we&#8217;re only working on the little things. And they&#8217;re actionable items that we don&#8217;t have to think about because I know, I don&#8217;t know about you, but I know myself and a lot of others, if I look at something and go, Oh, I have to write an email campaign that has 17 emails in it.<\/p>\n<p>Huh? Where do I start?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:05] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> All of a sudden my brain&#8217;s going, yeah, that&#8217;s too big.<br \/>\n[00:24:07] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Right. But if I go, I need to, I need to write down the. The, I can&#8217;t even speak right now, but that&#8217;s okay. What is the, what is the, the theory of this one email, right? Oh, what&#8217;s the content pillars? Content, yeah. What&#8217;s the one thing I want to talk about in this email?<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s way easier than I&#8217;ve got to write 17 and they all have to interact with each other. Right? So breaking it down into small pieces I think has been really successful for lots of people.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:34] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> And I, and I, we use I use the first next step approach because when you&#8217;ve got somebody who is overwhelmed and actually in the Wednesday thing today we had a wonderful human who came in and it was like, I know I need to do some things, but every time I think about it, my brain goes, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, and they were creating a decision tree that from this one tiny decision, they, they were so overwhelmed by options, they&#8217;re like, I can&#8217;t even cope with it.<\/p>\n<p>Yes. So you, we break it down. Okay. So what&#8217;s the first next step? Yes. And they were like, well, I could do this. And then what if, what if, what if, what if it&#8217;s okay, that&#8217;s not the first next step. Okay. Step one back. What&#8217;s the step before that? And we, we walk back until the first step and it might be sit up in bed.<\/p>\n<p>Yes. That might be your first. And then what&#8217;s your next first step. Put one foot on the floor. What&#8217;s your next step? If it&#8217;s, if you&#8217;re sitting at a computer and you&#8217;re overwhelmed, okay, so what&#8217;s your first next step? Open a document. Yeah, what&#8217;s your next first next step? Write a title. And so it&#8217;s sort of like going backwards to actually the tiniest step that you need to take, which is doable and achievable, and then you break your inertia.<\/p>\n<p>And keep focusing on the, it&#8217;s the 1 percent theory, isn&#8217;t it? Because if you focus on your 10k goal, as you say, if you focus on your 10k goal, that&#8217;s enormous. But actually, if you focus on 1 percent improvement and keep walking 1%, you will damn get there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:02] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> I hear you. And I, that is the one thing that I think helps most people.<\/p>\n<p>And the other thing to remember is that, You might not be the person that your first step is sitting up in bed. Your first, your first step might be go make breakfast or go to the toilet or brush your teeth. Like you, you, you might not have to say, sit up in bed, take the covers off, put your foot on the floor, but you have to find what&#8217;s right for you.<\/p>\n<p>And that&#8217;s where the experimental piece comes in and give yourself grace. And encourage yourself and honor your own self to know that today&#8217;s goals or today&#8217;s first steps, maybe in six months, they&#8217;re different and be okay with changing that to maybe there&#8217;s a lot going on in your life. And maybe you didn&#8217;t have to write down your first step was get set up in bed one day, but maybe it is today.<\/p>\n<p>And that&#8217;s okay too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:48] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> And I find, and we find quite often, or I find quite often is that entrepreneurs, they&#8217;re absolutely smashing out the park. There&#8217;s, I&#8217;m not there yet. I&#8217;m still not there yet. And it&#8217;s like, okay, let&#8217;s look at the gap in the game. Cause what you&#8217;re doing is you&#8217;re looking at the gap from where you are now to where you want to be.<\/p>\n<p>Let&#8217;s have a look at the last six months. What gains have you made? Mm hmm, and then using the measures that works for those people or yeah, you know, okay So what have you done over the last six months? Let&#8217;s just do this that that that that that that that okay So although you&#8217;re between here and where you want to be ultimately we&#8217;ve got a way to go Let&#8217;s acknowledge that you&#8217;ve already made some gains<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:28] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> And I think that&#8217;s something that is very, very difficult for most neuro people, neurotypical people to see because they are so focused on trying to be normal or trying to fit in or trying to be successful in other people&#8217;s eyes.<\/p>\n<p>That whole concept of, you know, not wanting to be shunned and that kind of idea, right? But when you&#8217;re looking at. Not acknowledging where you&#8217;ve come from, then you&#8217;re so busy focused on the stretch in front of you that you exhaust yourself and you&#8217;ll feel because you&#8217;re never getting there. Let&#8217;s be honest.<\/p>\n<p>We are never going to get to our end result of successfulness because we keep moving the goalpost. So we have to acknowledge that we&#8217;ve done some good things so that when we move the goalpost, we understand. Hey, we moved the goalpost.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:12] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> I, there are two things, two activities I absolutely love. Number one is the monthly ta da list.<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. And just, it&#8217;s 90 seconds, 90 seconds, just get a piece of paper and a pen. What did you do this month? And just achieve it. The second thing I have I work in I use a project management tool. So I have a list of doom and that&#8217;s the list of all of the things I need to do. And then every time I move it to the list of done.<\/p>\n<p>Nice. And then every month I create a new list of done and what I can see is I can see this list of done growing and growing and growing. And it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a dopamine exercise and it&#8217;s a reminder that I may feel today that I haven&#8217;t been as productive or as effective as I might have planned or ideally wanted to be.<\/p>\n<p>But look at my done list. I&#8217;ve got some shit off that I&#8217;ve done some, the list is growing. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:10] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Yeah. And that&#8217;s the piece, right? It&#8217;s like finding out what it is that drives you knowing. Who you are as a human being and how your brain operates for some people, they love the check marks, right? They need to see the check marks for some people They need to give themselves a reward that if I do this then I&#8217;m gonna be able to go do this or if I do This then I&#8217;m gonna get a brownie out of it.<\/p>\n<p>Whatever the case may be Whatever drives you whatever gives you that dopamine to keep moving forward. It doesn&#8217;t matter what it is for you Just understand what it is for you would give it to yourself<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:40] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> Last year I spent I spent, I was going to say way too much time. I spent a lot of time creating a worth ethic manifesto for myself and that meant for me sitting down with, and I had a bunch of categories of like relationships, work, quality of life, home life, and actually writing down What is it that, what is my journey towards what do I, what does that actually mean for me?<\/p>\n<p>And then writing down, okay, so what my, what&#8217;s my strategic plan for getting there? And then what are my habits that I need to cultivate to get there? Yes. And so, and then I&#8217;ve got it published nice. Into a book. So I, and, and it sits here. . Beautiful. You got this. Perfect. This is my book. And so, although I don&#8217;t look at it every, I don&#8217;t read it very often.<\/p>\n<p>But because I&#8217;ve written it and because it&#8217;s in there, my brain is always looking at it, even in the corner of my eye, so it recognises that, it reminds me actually, this is where I&#8217;m going, this is why I&#8217;m going, these are the habits I need to cultivate to actually get from where I am now. To where I would like to have my life looking.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:48] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> Yes. Yes. That is so beautiful. I love that you put it all into a book. That&#8217;s so gorgeous.<br \/>\n[00:30:53] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> I did, I got it published. Canva. Amazing. Canva get, you can put this stuff Yeah. Design my own book.<br \/>\n[00:30:59] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> That&#8217;s beautiful. I could talk to you all day, but I know that we need to wrap this up and, but I, I absolutely love your energy.<\/p>\n<p>I love what you do for people. I love to hear about the way that you help other people both. Corporately as well as entrepreneurs. I think that can I tell you something beautiful today? Yes. Oh, so as, as I mentioned, the, the house entrepreneur community, that was it was, it was a complete accident.<\/p>\n<p>We have the way and I designed it. I set it up because I was sitting in the bidding, bidding in lockdown as a distraction ADHD human trying to set up a business. I&#8217;m like, I haven&#8217;t, I have no, I have no friends, no people like me. So I, I sort of like started how to entrepreneur to go and find other people like me.<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. And we&#8217;ve been running the Wednesday thing for, yeah, for four years now. And we have a virtual office and I was in client meetings and I came out of the meetings. We have like chat threads and there was this conversation going on in, in, in, in one of the chat threads. And then at the bottom is like, sorry, is it okay if we do this?<\/p>\n<p>And what they&#8217;ve done is there&#8217;s about 10 people in the community who have all come together saying, we&#8217;re really struggling with clutter. How about we set up a day where we get together and we peer support each other. Nice. And I would just feel with so much joy. joy and love for these people, that they&#8217;re self organizing support for each other with the things that they find hard.<\/p>\n<p>And I was just like, my work here is done.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s beautiful. There is nothing like body doubling. I mean, it just gets so much done.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:28] <strong>Sara Kedge:<\/strong> Which is again, which is why we have the virtual office. There is a, there&#8217;s a, there&#8217;s a zoom link that anybody can go and use. You just drop a message in, in the group or in the, in the chat thread and you just go in there and just body double.<\/p>\n<p>And the friends that have been made. the connections of the amount of work that&#8217;s been done just by random people who don&#8217;t know each other just going sitting in a zoom room together. It&#8217;s beautiful. Brilliant. Just brilliant. I love it. That&#8217;s awesome. I love making a difference, helping people to build their lives so that they actually enjoy their lives more.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, there is nothing greater. I just, I think that it&#8217;s so amazing to support people like that. And it&#8217;s nice that they&#8217;re. starting to self actualize their own groups as well. Oh yeah, we&#8217;ve got there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s another lovely human in there who&#8217;s organizing poetry and spoken word event. There&#8217;s, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s people who organizing fitness.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s so lovely that the, the, the, the, the, the space is safe enough that people are like, Oh, we can go and do some things. And it&#8217;s all with love and kindness and that coming to knowing what your purpose is and knowing where you&#8217;re coming from that she, it was really one of the things that came out of my worth ethic manifesto was The whole purpose of my, my life is to leave, leave people in the place, the planet better than when I found it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:39] <strong>Angela Mondor &#8211; The Geeky Girl:<\/strong> It&#8217;s sort of like camping, right? You always leave the spot better than when you left it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. I was, I was a girl guide in a brownie. And the thing we had when we were brownies and go guys was it was leave any footprints, take any memories. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Very good. Oh my God.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s been so lovely having you here. I know that everybody&#8217;s going to really enjoy listening to you and of course all the stuff will be in our show notes so you can go and follow your podcast as well and hear you do your interviews. We&#8217;ve got some really, really cool stuff that you&#8217;ve been doing over there.<\/p>\n<p>So I&#8217;ve been enjoying listening to your episodes as well. I hope you have a fantastic day. Yes, thank you. And you&#8217;re coming onto my podcast soon, so you&#8217;ll, you&#8217;ll be, we&#8217;ll be able to sort of talk, talk, talk more, which would be amazing. Cross, cross the pond conversations. That&#8217;s awesome. Thanks so much.<\/p>\n<p>I hope you have a great day. Thank you so much for having me. Bye now.<\/p>\n<\/div><\/details><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A thought-provoking conversation with Sarah Ketch, a leading voice in DEI strategy and advocate for neurodivergent entrepreneurs.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":14698,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"_genesis_hide_title":false,"_genesis_hide_breadcrumbs":false,"_genesis_hide_singular_image":false,"_genesis_hide_footer_widgets":false,"_genesis_custom_body_class":"","_genesis_custom_post_class":"","_genesis_layout":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[158],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-14696","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-overgivers-anonymous-podcast","8":"entry"},"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v24.4 - 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